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Recruitment and Retention for 2027

257Matt said:
Herbie in a heartbeat

Only four players irreplaceable Katoa, Herbie, Donga and Plath.
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A few others pretty key too but they're the big four

That said, Bostock just does not lose games and neither does his sister (this year anyway)

We obviously lose Flegler and Knowles as the first two if we need cap space and if we need to lose a marquee player it has to be Hammer

Obviously only if we have to but in theory Brimson is available for about 650k or so (Titans are shopping him and will kick in 200k or so on his slight overs deal) and is actually a very good fullback just isn't a centre or a six he's only a small downgrade from Hammer if we had to save 700k or so there, Trai unfortunately isn't the guy in a premiership contending side in first grade as much as he's an amazing backup. As an ex Titans fan, Kini does have the upside because of his attack but Brimson is a substantially better fullback today because he can actually defend at FB and is much better in attack at FB than he is in the centres or at five-eighth he's just being played out of position because the Titans signed two fullbacks to marquee money and Kini can't be repurposed elsewhere

Hopefully we can keep Hammer and it's just posturing from his management

Our cap can't be in that bad shape even with a Katoa upgrade and Herbie upgrade coming and presumably a Bostock upgrade if we keep him too and a small upgrade for Hammer, we have shed 800k in cap for Safiti, will shed 900k for Flegler plus have only net paid a few hundred k for Williams selling Nikorima and have sold off Isaako and Averillo and Keeley who granted wouldn't be on huge money but more than the min plus we can let Knowles go too if he doesn't want to take a min wage type deal when the time comes and we can afford to let one of our second rowers go, presumably Lemuelu and Pouniu shouldn't be on huge money yet, granted Finefuiaki will need an upgrade - again ideally we keep everyone but we have flexibility if everyone wants to stay and Flegler + Safiti alone is 1.7m in cap space minus min wage replacements (presumably promoting development guys)

We will need to spare an extra 500-600k a season to upgrade Katoa but that's an extra year away

I think it is possible to keep the core of the side together if they all want to stay and even give the key players upgrades, we're just going to have to shed Flegler and Knowles and one of the second rowers and promote a couple of our development and QCup guys potentially. Ideally we keep everyone, although if Flegler wants to stay he has to take a massive pay cut. I could see the Broncos wanting him back though especially if they lose Willison and if that happens we should allow it unless he wants to take unders to stay or improves massively post injury in the off season, the Titans made the mistake of paying Fermor post serious injury and he hasn't been the same since and never will be again most likely

We could potentially put together a Penrith-like dynasty here if we keep the core of the side together
 
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as i heard on a radio players are prepeared to take less if they can keep the squad and i think thats going happen asnt big name i see noe them wanting to leave ( and club will want big name replacements if we do )
 
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SwoopAE said:
A few others pretty key too but they're the big four

That said, Bostock just does not lose games and neither does his sister (this year anyway)

We obviously lose Flegler and Knowles as the first two if we need cap space and if we need to lose a marquee player it has to be Hammer

Obviously only if we have to but in theory Brimson is available for about 650k or so (Titans are shopping him and will kick in 200k or so on his slight overs deal) and is actually a very good fullback just isn't a centre or a six he's only a small downgrade from Hammer if we had to save 700k or so there, Trai unfortunately isn't the guy in a premiership contending side in first grade as much as he's an amazing backup. As an ex Titans fan, Kini does have the upside because of his attack but Brimson is a substantially better fullback today because he can actually defend at FB and is much better in attack at FB than he is in the centres or at five-eighth he's just being played out of position because the Titans signed two fullbacks to marquee money and Kini can't be repurposed elsewhere

Hopefully we can keep Hammer and it's just posturing from his management

Our cap can't be in that bad shape even with a Katoa upgrade and Herbie upgrade coming and presumably a Bostock upgrade if we keep him too and a small upgrade for Hammer, we have shed 800k in cap for Safiti, will shed 900k for Flegler plus have only net paid a few hundred k for Williams selling Nikorima and have sold off Isaako and Averillo and Keeley who granted wouldn't be on huge money but more than the min plus we can let Knowles go too if he doesn't want to take a min wage type deal when the time comes and we can afford to let one of our second rowers go, presumably Lemuelu and Pouniu shouldn't be on huge money yet, granted Finefuiaki will need an upgrade - again ideally we keep everyone but we have flexibility if everyone wants to stay and Flegler + Safiti alone is 1.7m in cap space minus min wage replacements (presumably promoting development guys)

We will need to spare an extra 500-600k a season to upgrade Katoa but that's an extra year away

I think it is possible to keep the core of the side together if they all want to stay and even give the key players upgrades, we're just going to have to shed Flegler and Knowles and one of the second rowers and promote a couple of our development and QCup guys potentially. Ideally we keep everyone, although if Flegler wants to stay he has to take a massive pay cut. I could see the Broncos wanting him back though especially if they lose Willison and if that happens we should allow it unless he wants to take unders to stay or improves massively post injury in the off season, the Titans made the mistake of paying Fermor post serious injury and he hasn't been the same since and never will be again most likely

We could potentially put together a Penrith-like dynasty here if we keep the core of the side together
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brimson be highly unlikey as he wants be full time full back to get more than 700k
 
SwoopAE said:
A few others pretty key too but they're the big four

That said, Bostock just does not lose games and neither does his sister (this year anyway)

We obviously lose Flegler and Knowles as the first two if we need cap space and if we need to lose a marquee player it has to be Hammer

Obviously only if we have to but in theory Brimson is available for about 650k or so (Titans are shopping him and will kick in 200k or so on his slight overs deal) and is actually a very good fullback just isn't a centre or a six he's only a small downgrade from Hammer if we had to save 700k or so there, Trai unfortunately isn't the guy in a premiership contending side in first grade as much as he's an amazing backup. As an ex Titans fan, Kini does have the upside because of his attack but Brimson is a substantially better fullback today because he can actually defend at FB and is much better in attack at FB than he is in the centres or at five-eighth he's just being played out of position because the Titans signed two fullbacks to marquee money and Kini can't be repurposed elsewhere

Hopefully we can keep Hammer and it's just posturing from his management

Our cap can't be in that bad shape even with a Katoa upgrade and Herbie upgrade coming and presumably a Bostock upgrade if we keep him too and a small upgrade for Hammer, we have shed 800k in cap for Safiti, will shed 900k for Flegler plus have only net paid a few hundred k for Williams selling Nikorima and have sold off Isaako and Averillo and Keeley who granted wouldn't be on huge money but more than the min plus we can let Knowles go too if he doesn't want to take a min wage type deal when the time comes and we can afford to let one of our second rowers go, presumably Lemuelu and Pouniu shouldn't be on huge money yet, granted Finefuiaki will need an upgrade - again ideally we keep everyone but we have flexibility if everyone wants to stay and Flegler + Safiti alone is 1.7m in cap space minus min wage replacements (presumably promoting development guys)

We will need to spare an extra 500-600k a season to upgrade Katoa but that's an extra year away

I think it is possible to keep the core of the side together if they all want to stay and even give the key players upgrades, we're just going to have to shed Flegler and Knowles and one of the second rowers and promote a couple of our development and QCup guys potentially. Ideally we keep everyone, although if Flegler wants to stay he has to take a massive pay cut. I could see the Broncos wanting him back though especially if they lose Willison and if that happens we should allow it unless he wants to take unders to stay or improves massively post injury in the off season, the Titans made the mistake of paying Fermor post serious injury and he hasn't been the same since and never will be again most likely

We could potentially put together a Penrith-like dynasty here if we keep the core of the side together
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Brimson, on less money than Hammer and Titans paying part of that is a very interesting idea!
 
aj aint coming here for that

hes turned 900k for 3 seasons twice so yeah good luck gettig him at 750k
 
mr_c said:
aj aint coming here for that

hes turned 900k for 3 seasons twice so yeah good luck gettig him at 750k
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Salary cap going up. He'll probably be on a bit less than 1 mil for his next contract. Hammer wants (but isn't getting) 1.4 mil.
 
Dolph said:
Salary cap going up. He'll probably be on a bit less than 1 mil for his next contract. Hammer wants (but isn't getting) 1.4 mil.
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yup but if we cant afford hammer and aj is on 900k( not 750k) now there's o way we get him if cat keep hammer as aj will be wanting give or take 1.1 1.2 mil
 
Liverbird with Phins up said:
He has more mistakes in him then a year 2 essay
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He's very unmotivated right now and playing for a team that's both discarding him despite his loyalty at a time when the club was terrible and him wanting to stay despite that and he has been playing him out of position for two seasons behind a beaten forward pack every week. He was consistently the Titans best player pre-Tino and consistently their best in the 1-7 prior to being moved out of position. He's a vastly, vastly better player at fullback than anywhere else and we haven't seen him picked regularly in his best position in years now due to the Titans ridiculous mismanagement of their roster.

We should keep Hammer as he is better and I expect we do but if we somehow lose him and don't have a ready to go replacement (Fuller isn't it as much as we want him to be) Brimson is still a top 10ish fullback in the comp if we somehow lose Hammer for about half the price factoring Titans chip in due to their cap and having paid Kini too.

At a minimum Brimson is a better fullback than (out of other clubs starters) Drinkwater, Kennedy, Kini, Tracey, Gutho or whoever Dragons FB of the day is this year, Gray/Dufty at Souths and I would argue Tuaupiki too, just Tuaupiki plays for a much better side behind a dominant forward pack - Brimson has played behind a bottom 4 and beaten forward pack every season of his career and behind poor halves and outside backs most of his career too.

He'd be close to on par with Iongi and Weekes and Bula, he's substantially better than Faalogo defensively but a bit worse in attack. Bula is better than Brimson in the air and Weekes has more pace but yeah it'd put them on a similar tier in 'not the bottom tier of starting fullbacks but not the top either'. I guess we can probably put Tuaupiki/CNK in this category of mid tier fullbacks as well, but it's a lot easier to play fullback at the Warriors behind the best pack in the comp than it is at most clubs.

The only fullbacks clearly better than him are Edwards, Tedesco, Ponga, Walsh, Hammer, and then probably Turbo and Fa'alogo despite their major issues (shot body in Turbo's case and can't defend in Fa'alogo's case) then there are a few that are on a similar level

If it means the difference between keeping or losing a couple of Herbie/Katoa/Donoghoe/Plath and to a lesser extent Bostock and Cobbo and Finefuiaki cap wise I would be trading Hammer for Brimson all day if I had to

That said I hope we keep Hammer and I hope he agrees to an extension on around his current deal so we can use the Flegler/Knowles/Safiti/Stone/Isaako/Averillo money to keep Herbie, Bostock, Cobbo and upgrade/extend Katoa and if need be we can let Lemuelu go as long as we've extended Pouniu and Finefuiaki since Pouniu has shown us he can be a starting second rower and will be cheaper than Lemuelu.

If we do lose Flegler and Knowles we'll need to add one more bench middle probably, I assume we can promote from within our system but at the end of the day we're in a good spot if we keep everyone we want to keep

I expect Hammer will re-sign on about the same money he's currently on with ramping increases if the cap goes up most likely.
 
Fair enough although he is definitely the best free agent available if Hammer doesn't re sign and we are in a contending window. Fuller absolutely cannot be first choice fullback in a team that is trying to win the Premiership as much as I love his attack he is basically a much worse Kini/Fa'alogo. It sucks but he is just too small defensively it will always be a liability the same as the Titans are seeing right now with Kini who is an absolute liability in the air or in 1 on 1 tackles. I love Fuller and he's a great backup but we're not winning a comp with him at fullback.

The other off contract options are Turbo (won't leave Manly, has a shot body and is declining every season), Teddy (will be too old by 2028), CNK (probably too old by then, maybe a one year emergency deal, probably won't leave Wahs), Will Kennedy (worse than Brimson), Ison (presumably Sharks re-sign him over Kennedy if he works out as a prospect) and a bunch of guys who aren't starter level as a fullback.

Liverbird - I would 100% say the same based on the past two seasons, but it's worth noting he's vastly worse out of position than at FB, I don't know how many Titans games you have watched in the past decade (in my case basically all of them as an ex Titans fan) and while he has played a lot worse the past two seasons since he got moved out of his best position there is a reason for that.

I'm not advocating we sign him as a first choice option, but if it's on 600k under the new cap or so with the Titans putting in the rest IF we lose Hammer I think it's the next best option

Hopefully Hammer re-signs along with everyone else we want to keep and this discussion is pointless. I expect we're going to keep him.

I feel like it's going to work out and we're going to be able to keep everyone we want to keep and just lose Flegler/Knowles/probably Lemuelu from here and retain everyone else key to the roster and promote a couple talents we've been developing and that keeps the side together to be a top 4 side for an era the way Penrith have and hopefully win multiple comps along the way.
 
Tommy Makinson (recently retired super league players bee linked to role here in coaching role was a ex saints player not sure what sort of role though)
 
mr_c said:
Sadly it's what fullback are worth these days aj wants similar n is worse
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AJ is on 850k or so and the Titans would likely chip in 150-200ish (although there was some debate that is what they couldn't come to terms with PNG over) to move him on since they have fucked their cap badly and have paid two fullbacks and only need one - they have badly botched their cap paying Fermor overs after the ACL ruined him, Fotuaika overs after he declined to being a fringe NRL level forward, Tino is obviously good but is also on overs, they've paid both Kini and Brimson starter fullback money and have paid Jayden Campbell a ton too and other than Fotuaika they're all long term deals that cripple the club's ability to do anything else about their horrible forwards/backs/2nd row

They're going to have to pay all of Zane Harrison, Cooper Bai and Jojo Fifita in November to keep them too so they're desperate to free up cap space - i'm sure they would want to move AJ on if they can to have the money to not lose any of them as i'm sure PNG will be interested in Bai and also Harrison if they don't get Cleary or Walker and a ton of clubs would be interested in Jojo.

I'm not saying we should sign him, obviously we should keep Hammer if we can and I think we will keep him, but he would likely come at about half the cost of Hammer to the cap and it's only a downgrade from about the 4th or 5th best fullback in the comp in Hammer to about the 10th best fullback in the comp give or take if it were to happen, he's not as bad as people think he is as a fullback he's just been playing out of position for two years now due to the horrendous mismanagement of the Titans roster/club in general

Will be interesting to see how Makinson goes for us, hopefully he does well

For what its worth re Hammer im fairly sure the 1.4 quote is under the context of the new cap so it's more like 1.1m under the current cap or so - if it was 1.4m under the current cap, that is overs, his fair market value is probably around the 1m mark but 1.1 or so is probably fine to keep the team together, more than that and it's too much though - if the ramping to 1.4m is under the new cap then it's probably no problem and we can figure out a deal with him that is effectively close to what he's on now maybe with a trivial increase and it's just tied to the cap going up and that's no problem as it'll be using the same percentage of the cap

We basically need to distribute Safiti and Flegler's cap space money to Katoa and Herbie to keep them long term, then slight bumps for Hammer/Bostock/Cobbo, Averillo+Nikorima money covers Williams already and a min wage depth signing of some sort to fill those two roster spots, Isaako's money should cover Naufahu plus a little and Kaufusi's money should also really help us give Plath and Donoghoe and JMK bumps next season (obviously Katoa needs a large bump too) and we can let one of the three second rowers move on too, likely Lemuelu, if we need more space.

At that point to start 2028 if we have Hammer/Cobbo/Herbie/Bostock/Naufahu/Williams/Katoa/Gilbert/JMK/Molo/Pouniu/Finefuiaki/Plath/Donoghoe as our base 14 players that is a hell of a team that very likely wins a premiership in one of 2026/27/28 and we can fill in the remaining gaps/bench/depth with young/developed talent
 
SwoopAE said:
AJ is on 850k or so and the Titans would likely chip in 150-200ish (although there was some debate that is what they couldn't come to terms with PNG over) to move him on since they have fucked their cap badly and have paid two fullbacks and only need one - they have badly botched their cap paying Fermor overs after the ACL ruined him, Fotuaika overs after he declined to being a fringe NRL level forward, Tino is obviously good but is also on overs, they've paid both Kini and Brimson starter fullback money and have paid Jayden Campbell a ton too and other than Fotuaika they're all long term deals that cripple the club's ability to do anything else about their horrible forwards/backs/2nd row

They're going to have to pay all of Zane Harrison, Cooper Bai and Jojo Fifita in November to keep them too so they're desperate to free up cap space - i'm sure they would want to move AJ on if they can to have the money to not lose any of them as i'm sure PNG will be interested in Bai and also Harrison if they don't get Cleary or Walker and a ton of clubs would be interested in Jojo.

I'm not saying we should sign him, obviously we should keep Hammer if we can and I think we will keep him, but he would likely come at about half the cost of Hammer to the cap and it's only a downgrade from about the 4th or 5th best fullback in the comp in Hammer to about the 10th best fullback in the comp give or take if it were to happen, he's not as bad as people think he is as a fullback he's just been playing out of position for two years now due to the horrendous mismanagement of the Titans roster/club in general

Will be interesting to see how Makinson goes for us, hopefully he does well

For what its worth re Hammer im fairly sure the 1.4 quote is under the context of the new cap so it's more like 1.1m under the current cap or so - if it was 1.4m under the current cap, that is overs, his fair market value is probably around the 1m mark but 1.1 or so is probably fine to keep the team together, more than that and it's too much though - if the ramping to 1.4m is under the new cap then it's probably no problem and we can figure out a deal with him that is effectively close to what he's on now maybe with a trivial increase and it's just tied to the cap going up and that's no problem as it'll be using the same percentage of the cap

We basically need to distribute Safiti and Flegler's cap space money to Katoa and Herbie to keep them long term, then slight bumps for Hammer/Bostock/Cobbo, Averillo+Nikorima money covers Williams already and a min wage depth signing of some sort to fill those two roster spots, Isaako's money should cover Naufahu plus a little and Kaufusi's money should also really help us give Plath and Donoghoe and JMK bumps next season (obviously Katoa needs a large bump too) and we can let one of the three second rowers move on too, likely Lemuelu, if we need more space.

At that point to start 2028 if we have Hammer/Cobbo/Herbie/Bostock/Naufahu/Williams/Katoa/Gilbert/JMK/Molo/Pouniu/Finefuiaki/Plath/Donoghoe as our base 14 players that is a hell of a team that very likely wins a premiership in one of 2026/27/28 and we can fill in the remaining gaps/bench/depth with young/developed talent
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theres no way hes on 850k for 2 reasons club would hardly offer 50kmore if signed till 2030 and no way they going give club s money for him they already said that
 
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