Recruitment and Retention for 2027

[mr_c]

lol more listening to media talking crap lol
if burton was on the outer ,i believe it when i see it, like herbie ( if herbie was to leave we have have a serious player in return for back line )

you and others ridden of a good chunk our players , and they proved you wrong and williams wouldnt been on woolfs radar if didnt think he was up to it ( re burton we got the young fullas from dogs coming through and they wont be staying if we got the likes burton willams would see out his career here at same time they will blood the young fullas )

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

This is good off season entertainment.

For the record, I'm not a high income earmer and have never lived in Sydney but I would think more and more lucrative TPAs exist for the top players down there.

Lower costs up here would make it easier to sign the lower income tier. But we have enough juniors that it would only occasionally be required.

Thats the thing about the way the club is set up, we can recycle very easily.

Other clubs with a tiny local footprint have had to set up talent identification and recruitment academy systems, where they end up playing extra in the long term to get players over.

The thing that certain clubs are good at, is a nudge and a wink. And dancing that fine line.

However, I don't see the Dolphins having to do that, yes we will lose a few, but putting in at grassroots will ensure a conveyor belt. Penrith is currently the Benchmark in this regards, And a lot of the talent they have lost for big dollars, haven't lived up to the billing at their other clubs.

As as long as we are system focused, and youth value adding, we shall be fine.

In relation to TPA's. The two biggest users of TPAs I'd assume are Melbourne and The Broncos. so whilst you would assume Sydney would be more lucrative in that regards, it isn't. Where is becomes lucrative is when your are the only team in that area. Id imagine the Cowboys would be a big player here as well. Id imagine teams in Sydney would be lower, and Id imagine the average value of TPA's would be lower then you think. Because of the way they have to come about. Now I go back to the nudge/ wink comment, my guesses would be those that are public knowledge.

I reckon everyone would imagine the Bulldogs would be a big user, I reckon they would be low, due to the full market in that area. However, with Laundy selling pub shares to player (Jokes), they probably don't use Company instigated TPA's.

 

[By the Bay]

Matt Burton on the outer with Phil Gould and been told he will be offered a reduced deal next contract. He’s already accepted less to stay in his previous deal.

Dolphins need to explore every way out of this George Williams deal and sign Burton who will be perfect for Katoa and has the best kicking game in the NRL. Katoa kicking game doesn’t come close to Burton.

Burton is 6 years younger than Williams.

Panthers will need someone to step in why Cleary is injured.
Dolphins should try and broker a deal with the Panthers for Williams.
Cogger and Cole are not the answer.

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

NRL makes third-party agreements public

In a historic move, the NRL has made public the total value of each club's third-party agreements in a move it says will improve transparency and integrity of the code's contract process while dispelling misconceptions about how much clubs are relying on TPAs.

www.nrl.com

This is all i could find, and its from 2018. Which is old, so it might have changed. I do remember reading something like this a while ago.

It may have even been this article that I read back on the Dragons forums.

 

[Red]

Panthers will need someone to step in why Cleary is injured.
Dolphins should try and broker a deal with the Panthers for Williams.
Cogger and Cole are not the answer.

A lot of us have expressed surprise and unhappiness about Williams signing but I don't think Wolff has.

He'll probably be really good next year. Given his age, the year after and the year after that worry me. But now Kodi is gone, we are definitely all in with Williams.

 

[mr_c]

A lot of us have expressed surprise and unhappiness about Williams signing but I don't think Wolff has.

He'll probably be really good next year. Given his age, the year after and the year after that worry me. But now Kodi is gone, we are definitely all in with Williams.

and if he dont we get burton he could easily go of the boil like any player dce foran hunt walker Reynolds all older and still top there game
tell me what going be wrong with his ability after a year

would matt and you and other be hard on burton if he played shit for us ? if georges body holds up well he could be 37 n still play stop just assuming and let it happen like other guys you n others bagged

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

So just to clarify. After reading that again. League wide TPA' make up 3% of the average cap. Of arms length TPA's. And it would be a lot lower for sydney clubs, taking Brisbane and Melbourne out of those numbers.

So if your considering TPA's as a draw card for a market. It just simply isnt.

Now remember, thats arms-length. Which TPA's must be.

Not nudge nudge wink wink.

 

[Josh]

So just to clarify. After reading that again. League wide TPA' make up 3% of the average cap. Of arms length TPA's. And it would be a lot lower for sydney clubs, taking Brisbane and Melbourne out of those numbers.

So if your considering TPA's as a draw card for a market. It just simply isnt.

Now remember, thats arms-length. Which TPA's must be.

Not nudge nudge wink wink.

That article is from 2018. You think it's still relevant? If NRL has made 3rd party agreements public, is there anywhere we can see them?

You don't think there are more, and more lucrative TPAs available for the top players down there?

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

That article is from 2018. You think it's still relevant? If NRL has made 3rd party agreements public, is there anywhere we can see them?

You don't think there are more, and more lucrative TPAs available for the top players down there?

As i said, its 2018, its old it might not be relevant.

Do i think much has changed? Well thats an opinon, TPA's have been around a while. No i dont think much has changed. If a lot had changed, i guess there would be more articles out there about it.

Here is what I don't think has changed from an economic stand point. TPA's will still only be prevalent in a market with one team. Why? If you're a business and want value for money, exclusivity in marketing is what you want, the edge if you will. Also, think about your average NRL player, and tying him to the image of your company, then you get Addo-Carr drug driving (Allegedly). From a marketing stand point, your not getting the uplift you think you would get. Its a very niche marketing proposition. Would it work in the car sales industry, yes because you customers are probably in that NRL market, however they get tied in with drug driving, ooppsss bad choice. However, that's all a guess. No I don't that by and large its a massive influence in saturated markets, especially in BIG business, which is the strength of Sydney. Small to medium sized business (niche), its might make a small difference, but those are in all markets across the Eastern sea board, with no market holding a large advantage. Going back to the advantage of Sydney and Big business, the biggest head office in Sydney would be Commbank, do you see a business of that size approaching players offering TPA's? no. what types of business offer tpa's then? Car dealers, your local/market based medium sized business, and they are everywhere. Its a fallacy to suggest they are more prevalent in Sydney, they are all over, and Ill say again, in a one team town/city its more lucrative because the players are scarce and the bad publicity is more controlled.

The biggest influence on our salary cap and contracts are ratchet clauses and clubs willing to roll the dice and do it, this is indirectly mostly influence by TV rights deal, because, as those increase, generally you see a rise in the cap. That's also an opinion. Now, I think they can be good if you're in a premiership window. To use the Roosters as an example. If they were to lose the Grand Final, Id suggest you might want to push the squad for another roll at the Premiership dice next season. Here it may be worth offering Herbie a big salary with ratchet clauses making it tasty for him. Would I as a Dolphin fan try to trump that, no, because we are setting up for the long term at the moment, and cap prudence is important during our growth phase. Is 20k to 100k (100k my be an exaggeration, considering as of 2018 most Sydney clubs only had tpas at about 200K) going to water the mouth of a player earning 1mil?

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

When considering the above, you have to remember. These are arms length deals. As the NRL requires.

I'm not suggesting teams cheat the cap.

However, if you are a business owner that also owns a club, which are separate business entities. And the NRL are littered with these (Allegedly), that's a different story totally.

However, I wouldn't support a club doing such things, I'd have to rethink it. Interestingly enough, you should check out Man City at the minute. Its the sort of thing, on a much larger scale, that happens when your governing body takes cheating financial regulations introduced for competitive equity seriously.

 

[Josh]

As i said, its 2018, its old it might not be relevant.

Do i think much has changed? Well thats an opinon, TPA's have been around a while. No i dont think much has changed. If a lot had changed, i guess there would be more articles out there about it.

Here is what I don't think has changed from an economic stand point. TPA's will still only be prevalent in a market with one team. Why? If you're a business and want value for money, exclusivity in marketing is what you want, the edge if you will. Also, think about your average NRL player, and tying him to the image of your company, then you get Addo-Carr drug driving (Allegedly). From a marketing stand point, your not getting the uplift you think you would get. Its a very niche marketing proposition. Would it work in the car sales industry, yes because you customers are probably in that NRL market, however they get tied in with drug driving, ooppsss bad choice. However, that's all a guess. No I don't that by and large its a massive influence in saturated markets, especially in BIG business, which is the strength of Sydney. Small to medium sized business (niche), its might make a small difference, but those are in all markets across the Eastern sea board, with no market holding a large advantage.

The biggest influence on our salary cap and contracts are ratchet clauses and clubs willing to roll the dice and do it, this is indirectly mostly influence by TV rights deal, because, as those increase, generally you see a rise in the cap. That's also an opinion. Now, I think they can be good if you're in a premiership window. To use the Roosters as an example. If they were to lose the Grand Final, Id suggest you might want to push the squad for another roll at the Premiership dice next season. Here it may be worth offering Herbie a big salary with ratchet clauses making it tasty for him. Would I as a Dolphin fan try to trump that, no, because we are setting up for the long term at the moment, and cap prudence is important during our growth phase. Is 20k to 100k (100k my be an exaggeration, considering as of 2018 most Sydney clubs only had tpas at about 200K) going to water the mouth of a player earning 1mil?

Sydney teams, or only one Sydney team can get decent TPA's? Considering Penrith and St. George are not really Sydney teams. Wollongong is more like Sunshine Coast for Brisbane and Penrith more like Ipswich. So that is certainly an exaggeration but not entirely wrong. Roosters comfortably win "the TPA competition" down there though Souths are also strong. Dogs, Eels lag behind. Tigers, Manly and Cronulla struggle.

The bottom line is, the higher cost of living won't be an issue for Herbie at all.
Firstly, as Matt mentioned, Politis will put him up in a penthouse suite and Herbie won't pay any rent.
Secondly, he would almost certainly get a lot money in TPA's than he gets now.

 

[Josh]

When considering the above, you have to remember. These are arms length deals. As the NRL requires.

I'm not suggesting teams cheat the cap.

However, if you are a business owner that also owns a club, which are separate business entities. And the NRL are littered with these (Allegedly), that's a different story totally.

However, I wouldn't support a club doing such things, I'd have to rethink it. Interestingly enough, you should check out Man City at the minute. Its the sort of thing, on a much larger scale, that happens when your governing body takes cheating financial regulations introduced for competitive equity seriously.

"Arms length"...... sure. We all buy that one.

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

Sydney teams, or only one Sydney team can get decent TPA's? Considering Penrith and St. George are not really Sydney teams. Wollongong is more like Sunshine Coast for Brisbane and Penrith more like Ipswich. So that is certainly an exaggeration but not entirely wrong. Roosters comfortably win "the TPA competition" down there though Souths are also strong. Dogs, Eels lag behind. Tigers, Manly and Cronulla struggle.

The bottom line is, the higher cost of living won't be an issue for Herbie at all.
Firstly, as Matt mentioned, Politis will put him up in a penthouse suite and Herbie won't pay any rent.
Secondly, he would almost certainly get a lot money in TPA's than he gets now.

I don't see Matt's posts, apologies, I try keep it to Dolphins fans, So I might have missed some of your point. My apologies.

However, if you are a business owner that also owns a club, which are separate business entities. And the NRL are littered with these (Allegedly), that's a different story totally.

That's what I am alluding to here though. However, that's against the rules.

Read this, TPA's have fallen from 5% to 3% since 2018 - I will say again they arent what you think, And its not big. He will not get a massive TPA. “The market isn’t as big as people think,” he said. “It only makes up about 3% of the total cap, down from 5.5% in 2018”
In relation to paying rent. That is part of the cap. So its not really a point, it has to be included. here you go. Only temporary or moving accommodation is free of that.

When I say arms length deal. Maybe im not explaining that well enough. TPA's or other payments, must be separate from the club and not instigated by the club. Its for the player to seek himself or boost his earning. For a club to offer a player at TPA as a part of luring them to the club, would be against the rules.

Guys, TPA's are “As a definition, a third-party deal/agreement between a player and third party. This could be a large corporate company or a small business,” as Faulkner says (NRL DUDE). “The most common are arm’s length deals which are agreements with companies that have no association to the player’s club and utilises the player in their own IP, not the NRL’s or clubs. So when you say TPA from a club. That is against the rules. So sydney clubs CANNOT, offers TPA's. A business can offer a TPA.

As I have said, where they are popular is in one team towns, because small business can approach a scarce player to advertise their product. The club is not allowedd to play any part.

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

The Salary cap is complex enough. And I think TPA's are generally not understood

I don't understand it fully. And its hard being clear typing it

But i would suggest we all need to brush up on what is allowed. Especially Matt.

Im not suggesting clubs cheat. nudge nudge wink wink. But I prefer to win and deserve it.

As a definition, a third-party deal/agreement between a player and third party. This could be a large corporate company or a small business,” as Faulkner says (NRL DUDE). “The most common are arm’s length deals which are agreements with companies that have no association to the player’s club and utilises the player in their own IP, not the NRL’s or clubs.

I do think this explains it though.

Sydney teams, or only one Sydney team can get decent TPA's? Considering Penrith and St. George are not really Sydney teams. Wollongong is more like Sunshine Coast for Brisbane and Penrith more like Ipswich. So that is certainly an exaggeration but not entirely wrong. Roosters comfortably win "the TPA competition" down there though Souths are also strong. Dogs, Eels lag behind. Tigers, Manly and Cronulla struggle.

So in essence, the part that i have highlighted, is essentially saying The Roosters cheat the best. Because no TEAM, is allowed to get TPA's for players.

That would be nudge nudge wink wink.

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

Ill clarify what I mean by 1 team towns.

The reason they are better is that there are only 30 players and maybe 1 or 2 marqure players in that local market.

So if a business wants to use a players intellictual property or image to advertise their product. The player has the power to name their price, because there isnt many players to choose from.

In Sydney. Small to medium businesses have many more players to choose from, and if your price is too high, they may seek another player.
Hence, the business has negotiating upper hand here.

Remember, TPA's are serprare from clubs, need signing off by the NRL to ensure they are arms length deals. Anything else would be cheating.

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

If you were to ask me, which city is the most lucrative in relation to TPA's id say Brisbane.

That is an assumption. Because details here arent high. But seeing the Broncos club have players profiting the most. Its a safe guess.

The reason TPA's were introduced, were to allow players, when the cap was introduced, to sell their image rites to earn more money, and not to suffer a restriction of income based on a cap rule. Its basically to get around restraint of trade. However, to ensure the cap worked, they made sure clubs had nothing to do with it and couldnt use it to add to payments.

Hope that makes it clearer.

As with anything. I am far from an expert.

 

[midlands hobo]

When considering the above, you have to remember. These are arms length deals. As the NRL requires.

I'm not suggesting teams cheat the cap.

However, if you are a business owner that also owns a club, which are separate business entities. And the NRL are littered with these (Allegedly), that's a different story totally.

However, I wouldn't support a club doing such things, I'd have to rethink it. Interestingly enough, you should check out Man City at the minute. Its the sort of thing, on a much larger scale, that happens when your governing body takes cheating financial regulations introduced for competitive equity seriously.

Wasn't there some story a few years back of Tino being offered shares in a bar/pub/restaurant?

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

Wasn't there some story a few years back of Tino being offered shares in a bar/pub/restaurant?

So, there was a situation, on live air, where Arthur Laundy said something about pub shares for players who come to the Bulldogs. I cant remember if it was TIno. (ill try look it up for you)

Gould told him to shut up you cant even say that.

Because its cheating.

And what people are alluding to here, is against the cap rules, and just plain not true. Clubs do not, and cannot organise TPA's for players under the salary cap rules. However TPA's are unlimited for players who want to go out and seek extra income with ARMS-LENGTH deals from outside businesses.

However, I don't blame the fan for it. Its these rules arent explained to the punter properly.

I for one have a lot of time on my hands and generally love sport, so i sit and look at it. Do I understand it fully? No, so i implore you to go do your own research.

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

'Embarrassing' Tino pub deal report slammed

'Childish'

www.nine.com.au

You were right it was Tino.

Laundy hotels is a Bulldogs partner and Sponsor. If you read the article, he would be in breach of the cap to do so (offering money/investments as part of signing a 4mil contract), as the company in question is connected to the club.

 

[Liverbird with Phins up]

Here is a graph for you. This is the most recent publication of TPA's per club, they are so insignificant you cant find newer ones, or at least I cant.

And as you can see in the graph they are dropping to a point, where they will be relatively unused.

The cap back then may have been 10mil? I know its about 11.9 now.

I could sit here and say the Roosters or all Sydney clubs are trash. But I wont, because they are insignificant. They are so not an issue, that I doubt they even come up in negotiations.

Now if you do a nudge nudge wink wink deal, and get caught. Ask the Bulldogs about the 31 point point story.