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Recruitment and Retention for 2027

Could that mean if we lose one or both of Herbie and Bostock that pouniu could end up in the centres instead of second row? Or one of lemuelu or finefuiaki transitioning to bring a middle forward?
 
SwoopAE said:
Could that mean if we lose one or both of Herbie and Bostock that pouniu could end up in the centres instead of second row? Or one of lemuelu or finefuiaki transitioning to bring a middle forward?
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got anderson.
 
SwoopAE said:
Could that mean if we lose one or both of Herbie and Bostock that pouniu could end up in the centres instead of second row? Or one of lemuelu or finefuiaki transitioning to bring a middle forward?
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Woolf used Finefeuiaki in the middle for a while last Friday. I think that's the more likely destination.

Pouniu is a stop gap centre but will be a gun top notch second-rower.

The elephant in the room for 2027 is who are the best two players out of Donoghoe, Knowles, Plath and Williams and the answer is the two lowest paid ones.
 
mr_c said:
got anderson.
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Absolutely no guarantee he becomes a starter though at this point hopefully he does but I'm considering him a depth signing not a starter he's 24 and has no nrl experience he isn't a 20-21 year old prospect the only NRL starting centre I can think of who hadn't landed a starting role by 24 is Iro
 
257Matt said:
Woolf used Finefeuiaki in the middle for a while last Friday. I think that's the more likely destination.

Pouniu is a stop gap centre but will be a gun top notch second-rower.

The elephant in the room for 2027 is who are the best two players out of Donoghoe, Knowles, Plath and Williams and the answer is the two lowest paid ones.
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Williams isn't a forward it's an entirely different role whether he gets re signed on a short term basis or not entirely depends on how he performs in 2027. If he sucks we don't re sign him and if he performs well and his body is holding up well presumably we re sign him on a one or two year deal, it'll entirely depends on his performance this season we can't make any specific plans there yet.

But yeah I think we are all in unanimous agreement that unless Knowles improves a lot in 2027 he shouldn't get re signed and that we are upgrading all three of Katoa, Donoghoe and Plath next season if we can as they're all key players to the side

And yeah if Lemuelu is re signing it feels like it makes a lot of sense to repurpose one of Lemuelu or Finefuiaki into the middle to allow Pouniu to start in the second row and that helps fill an area we aren't quite as strong as the rest of the roster in the middle.
 
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SwoopAE said:
Absolutely no guarantee he becomes a starter though at this point hopefully he does but I'm considering him a depth signing not a starter he's 24 and has no nrl experience he isn't a 20-21 year old prospect the only NRL starting centre I can think of who hadn't landed a starting role by 24 is Iro
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I like Kain Anderson as he's a Butcher Boy but you're right the reality is that he's 24 and only played 1 game when 11 players were out. Pouniu has played more NRL and he's only 18.

Fuller will be used at centre before Anderson and Nonu is ahead of Anderson.
 
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SwoopAE said:
Williams isn't a forward it's an entirely different role whether he gets re signed on a short term basis or not entirely depends on how he performs in 2027. If he sucks we don't re sign him and if he performs well and his body is holding up well presumably we re sign him on a one or two year deal, it'll entirely depends on his performance this season we can't make any specific plans there yet.

But yeah I think we are all in unanimous agreement that unless Knowles improves a lot in 2027 he shouldn't get re signed and that we are upgrading all three of Katoa, Donoghoe and Plath next season if we can as they're all key players to the side

And yeah if Lemuelu is re signing it feels like it makes a lot of sense to repurpose one of Lemuelu or Finefuiaki into the middle to allow Pouniu to start in the second row and that helps fill an area we aren't quite as strong as the rest of the roster in the middle.
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If the past is the best indicator of the future, Williams will be 33 then. We let Kodi go (he was 32), I doubt we hold on to Williams.

That being said, and a reminder I hate the signing, everything I have listened to gives me hope that WIlliams may prove me wrong.
 
I would expect it would be one year deals for Williams every season if he plays more than the two seasons with us, or if it's a two year deal it would be on reduced money due to age even if he's playing well.

I'm happy with the signing still, Kodi's 2026 was still a huge outlier by the standards of his career as a whole in that he plays substantially better than average and while i'd have been fine with keeping him I think there is a legitimate chance Williams turns out to be an upgrade on what we would have got out of Kodi. Obviously with hindsight with how well Kodi continued to play as 2026 went on keeping him would have been fine too but the deal was done and I trust Woolf's judgement and I also think Williams is probably being pretty substantially underrated by our fanbase.

With regards to 2029 onwards, Karl Oloapu is only 21 if he can get a couple good seasons of reserve grade and his body holds up and he develops well he maybe he could be an option or Batten or Fien could be first grade ready in two years time potentially as well and by then Katoa will basically be a seasoned veteran entering his prime years with a ton of experience. Donoghoe is always an option too although he's so good at lock I want us to keep him there.

Feels like a problem we don't have to solve yet and can revisit in a years time whether the option is extend Williams by a year at a time, promote from within or go to market
 
Liverbird with Phins up said:
I agree with you.

However, is earning 850k with a trophy or 1 mil with no trophies for a few years going to make a huge difference financiallly?

Over the lifespan of an average contract (the average nrl career is probably less then 3 years) but lets say for Bostock is an extra mil because im generous. (and thats before tax, because that 150k is 75k in the pocket after tax, then at that income level the taxman comes back at you and takes a little more)

So youd perfer something like 6mil and no glory? Or 5mil and all glory? (before tax)

Id be taking the later.

The reality is. You have one career and the difference isnt life changing at that level.

However, i acknowledge not all are the same, and others do it for just the money. However, i dont want players in the team I support to be there just for the cash. They need to thrive for glory to put the effort in thats needed to achieve glory.

Just my opinion
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Knees however have a tendancy like hamstrings to keep going. How many kids have you coached or spoken to who don't bother with school because they are convinced they will be a star so don't need to study? I used to tell them all it takes is one hit to the side of the knee in the wrong way and your done. It may heal but you'll never be as quick or agile again and then what are you? Just another decent but not stand out player your value plummets. The chances of you getting injured and dropping are many times greater than ever getting all the glory. 75k you say? if hes carerr goes next year what sort of job will he be able to land where he'll have an extra 75k a year to save.
 
I'm all for getting paid but presumably we'll be offering Herbie 1m a season at least (likely more like 1.1-1.2) and if he makes 1.2 or 1.3 elsewhere that isn't that huge a difference over a five year period earning that you're still going to bet set for life if you invest well so beyond that it comes down to where do you want to live and who do you want your teammates to be

Of course if it's the difference between earning 400k a season and 1m+ that's an entirely different thing

Harrison re-signed at the Titans, now the Walker drama takes centre stage since if the Roosters lose him and DCE at the same time and do give him an early release they're not realistically contending in 2027 and our chances of making the grand final or winning the comp go up a lot, especially with Cleary under an injury cloud and who knows if he'll be the same when he's back/higher chance of reinjury etc and the Broncos are in a minor rebuild, Souths don't have a spine and while the Knights could also win it maybe, the Warriors also got a bit worse this off season

I'm very curious who PNG are winding up with as their halfback I assume Lam is not the plan at all and while presumably they find a way to get Brimson or someone at fullback they desperately need a real halfback - obviously Walker and Cleary are their targets but now that Harrison's re signed they don't really have a backup plan, Matt Burton isn't a halfback at all, Mitchell Woods has a serious injury history and is presumably getting a chance at the Bulldogs if he can get healthy for 2027 and all of the other halfbacks available aren't real first graders now if they miss out on Cleary and Walker, they can build a great back line and it won't matter if their halfback is Madden or Ilias or whoever

I hope the rumours are just rumours and we can keep Herbie (and Bostock) we'll see

Saw a post today we're unlikely to keep Flegler but I assume that is by choice, we desperately need to assign his 900k a season elsewhere as opposed to him playing 35 average minutes a game for us, we can match his output with a 300-400k a season middle or sign a legitimate marquee middle if one becomes available but i'm not keen on any of the marquee middles available Nov 1 for what their prices will be, Safiti is closest but age concerns by 2028 and Leota there are too many age concerns and I think Willison's asking price will be too high for what he provides and Junior Paulo sucks for a 'marquee' middle. Probably better off finding a few more Ray Stone value for money type players and promoting from within in that regard and using the savings to extend Katoa/Donoghoe/Plath next year and ideally keep at least one of Herbie or Bostock

I fully expect to hear that Flegler is going back to the Broncos on about 500k a season very shortly after Nov 1 and I think it's best for all parties if that's the case, they need depth in their middles and we desperately need the cap space back and probably can't responsibly offer Flegler more than 400k a season or so given his output this year and injury history and guys like Su'a can give us the same output at a third of the price

At this point i'll consider the off season a win if we retain at least one of Herbie or Bostock and Flegler moves on to a new club for 2028 and hopefully we can send him out with a premiership in 2027
 
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SwoopAE said:
I'm all for getting paid but presumably we'll be offering Herbie 1m a season at least (likely more like 1.1-1.2) and if he makes 1.2 or 1.3 elsewhere that isn't that huge a difference over a five year period earning that you're still going to bet set for life if you invest well so beyond that it comes down to where do you want to live and who do you want your teammates to be

Of course if it's the difference between earning 400k a season and 1m+ that's an entirely different thing

Harrison re-signed at the Titans, now the Walker drama takes centre stage since if the Roosters lose him and DCE at the same time and do give him an early release they're not realistically contending in 2027 and our chances of making the grand final or winning the comp go up a lot, especially with Cleary under an injury cloud and who knows if he'll be the same when he's back/higher chance of reinjury etc and the Broncos are in a minor rebuild, Souths don't have a spine and while the Knights could also win it maybe, the Warriors also got a bit worse this off season

I'm very curious who PNG are winding up with as their halfback I assume Lam is not the plan at all and while presumably they find a way to get Brimson or someone at fullback they desperately need a real halfback - obviously Walker and Cleary are their targets but now that Harrison's re signed they don't really have a backup plan, Matt Burton isn't a halfback at all, Mitchell Woods has a serious injury history and is presumably getting a chance at the Bulldogs if he can get healthy for 2027 and all of the other halfbacks available aren't real first graders now if they miss out on Cleary and Walker, they can build a great back line and it won't matter if their halfback is Madden or Ilias or whoever

I hope the rumours are just rumours and we can keep Herbie (and Bostock) we'll see

Saw a post today we're unlikely to keep Flegler but I assume that is by choice, we desperately need to assign his 900k a season elsewhere as opposed to him playing 35 average minutes a game for us, we can match his output with a 300-400k a season middle or sign a legitimate marquee middle if one becomes available but i'm not keen on any of the marquee middles available Nov 1 for what their prices will be, Safiti is closest but age concerns by 2028 and Leota there are too many age concerns and I think Willison's asking price will be too high for what he provides and Junior Paulo sucks for a 'marquee' middle. Probably better off finding a few more Ray Stone value for money type players and promoting from within in that regard and using the savings to extend Katoa/Donoghoe/Plath next year and ideally keep at least one of Herbie or Bostock

I fully expect to hear that Flegler is going back to the Broncos on about 500k a season very shortly after Nov 1 and I think it's best for all parties if that's the case, they need depth in their middles and we desperately need the cap space back and probably can't responsibly offer Flegler more than 400k a season or so given his output this year and injury history and guys like Su'a can give us the same output at a third of the price

At this point i'll consider the off season a win if we retain at least one of Herbie or Bostock and Flegler moves on to a new club for 2028 and hopefully we can send him out with a premiership in 2027
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Yep. Something is happening with Flegler. And whatever it is, he already knows.

There is moves being made as of right now.

You reckon back to the Broncos? Im going to say Cowboys
 
midlands hobo said:
Knees however have a tendancy like hamstrings to keep going. How many kids have you coached or spoken to who don't bother with school because they are convinced they will be a star so don't need to study? I used to tell them all it takes is one hit to the side of the knee in the wrong way and your done. It may heal but you'll never be as quick or agile again and then what are you? Just another decent but not stand out player your value plummets. The chances of you getting injured and dropping are many times greater than ever getting all the glory. 75k you say? if hes carerr goes next year what sort of job will he be able to land where he'll have an extra 75k a year to save.
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Exactly, so win a comp while you can.

The average career is less then 3 years as I have said and you have so rightly suggested.

The extra 75k over that short time isnt going to last you 40 years, let alone 750k if it goes for 10 year.

So take the memories which last a life time rather then the extra 15%. Because its not going to make a massive difference to you financially, whether your career is cut short, or 6 years longer.
 
SwoopAE said:
Could that mean if we lose one or both of Herbie and Bostock that pouniu could end up in the centres instead of second row? Or one of lemuelu or finefuiaki transitioning to bring a middle forward?
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Kuli would be a fantastic prop. He is already a big motor battering ram. Another year under his belt and he could be a very serviceable middle. I think he was fifth for most tackles this year as well. Conn's does a very Beaver Menzies job of hitting gaps off his halves which is a bit unique, pair him with pouniu who is more in the kuli battering ram mould and the pack only gets stronger.

Edit: some might remember I suggested moving Gilbert to prop during the pre season. A starting front row of kuli and Gilbert is no slouch.
 
Liverbird with Phins up said:
Exactly, so win a comp while you can.

The average career is less then 3 years as I have said and you have so rightly suggested.

The extra 75k over that short time isnt going to last you 40 years, let alone 750k if it goes for 10 year.

So take the memories which last a life time rather then the extra 15%. Because its not going to make a massive difference to you financially, whether your career is cut short, or 6 years longer.
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75k sat in an investment for 40 years will. Sports careers follow the opposite path to most. Nearly every career you start on poor pay and as you get older you get better and end up on the most usually in your 50s or 60s (especially exec level) In sport you earn most of the cash before you're 30 then what do you do? you were running around a field while everyone else was working in industry or studying so unless you are one of the few who go into coaching or even fewer who become a media personality you end up doing what?
 
yonathonjoung said:
Kuli would be a fantastic prop. He is already a big motor battering ram. Another year under his belt and he could be a very serviceable middle. I think he was fifth for most tackles this year as well. Conn's does a very Beaver Menzies job of hitting gaps off his halves which is a bit unique, pair him with pouniu who is more in the kuli battering ram mould and the pack only gets stronger.

Edit: some might remember I suggested moving Gilbert to prop during the pre season. A starting front row of kuli and Gilbert is no slouch.
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Last weekend Woolf had Kuli playing in the front row for a brief period I do believe he makes the move to prop as it’s inevitable Pouniu has to be in the NRL side.

Pouniu is a stop gap centre but he’s a pure second rower.
 
SwoopAE said:
I would expect it would be one year deals for Williams every season if he plays more than the two seasons with us, or if it's a two year deal it would be on reduced money due to age even if he's playing well.

I'm happy with the signing still, Kodi's 2026 was still a huge outlier by the standards of his career as a whole in that he plays substantially better than average and while i'd have been fine with keeping him I think there is a legitimate chance Williams turns out to be an upgrade on what we would have got out of Kodi. Obviously with hindsight with how well Kodi continued to play as 2026 went on keeping him would have been fine too but the deal was done and I trust Woolf's judgement and I also think Williams is probably being pretty substantially underrated by our fanbase.

With regards to 2029 onwards, Karl Oloapu is only 21 if he can get a couple good seasons of reserve grade and his body holds up and he develops well he maybe he could be an option or Batten or Fien could be first grade ready in two years time potentially as well and by then Katoa will basically be a seasoned veteran entering his prime years with a ton of experience. Donoghoe is always an option too although he's so good at lock I want us to keep him there.

Feels like a problem we don't have to solve yet and can revisit in a years time whether the option is extend Williams by a year at a time, promote from within or go to market
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willaims is only there till young guys we picked up from dogs are ready
 
i would not be suprised if thom f goes we go for matt crocker ( hsas worked with the coaches )would be cheap and does the hard yards we probbaly loose fuis to so would need some mongeral type forwards
 
midlands hobo said:
75k sat in an investment for 40 years will. Sports careers follow the opposite path to most. Nearly every career you start on poor pay and as you get older you get better and end up on the most usually in your 50s or 60s (especially exec level) In sport you earn most of the cash before you're 30 then what do you do? you were running around a field while everyone else was working in industry or studying so unless you are one of the few who go into coaching or even fewer who become a media personality you end up doing what?
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What I am saying is, at that level of earning an extra $75k a year means nothing compared to the life time memory of being a winner. You're set up well either way. And they arent earning 75k for 40 years, and they wont be investing 75k over 40 years like that, it will be the extra 500k they earn over the life time of the contract that they'll invest, which will get them half an invest property on top of the 3 they already have.

Ill give you a different example. If you had 50mil in the bank, would you break yourself for an extra 5mil (10%)? or would you trade the time breaking yourself for the extra 5mil to enjoy watching your sporting team win the comp for that time? I have deliberately exaggerated to display my point. I know we arent talking that type of cash.

I do agree with your point somewhat, they have 1 sport career, earn as much as you want. I agree. My point is, and it wasnt my point it was Bryan Fletchers, is that the money will be there, get the memories while you can. And that's my point, there is little difference between being setup with 6 mil in investments, and being setup with 5 mil in investements with a trophy on the fireplace. I'm saying the later with worth more.

You're context is coming from being setup or having nothing and having to work after your career. That is not what is happening here, or what i'm suggesting at all. And you are missing my point totally.

we are talking about people earning 850k a year giving that up for 1mil a year and not winning anything. Neither is having to work after football, unless your a gambler or doing something silly. At that level of income it means little. Ask Steve Roach. And he was on a lot less.
 
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